Feminism: Are 20-Somethings Over It?

Here’s how I really feel about feminism: Love it—or leave me the fuck alone. (That’s right, I said it.) But not since my gender and sexuality classes at NYU have I met a roomful of young women who feel the same way. In fact, since leaving the fake world behind four years ago, I’ve had to come to terms with the fact that many of my peers just don’t identify with feminism. They think it’s for old women and man haters, hairy broads and militants. While one part of me wants to claw at the faces of these imbeciles (Can’t you see you’re buying into stereotypes propagated by the male-dominated media?) another part of me, perhaps the part that’s selling out growing up, is beginning to accept that the feminism I fell in love with—i.e., the badass 1970s version that I wasn’t even alive for—had its moment. And while I may never stop pining for Gloria Steinem 2.0—and I will never, ever go middle-ground (please, god)—I may be ready to dip my toe into the new wave.

I had this revelation after reading The End of the Women’s Movement by Courtney E. Martin, a 29-year-old feminist writer who Damsel fancies a genius. So, to kick off what we hope to be a titillating debate about 20-somethings and feminism, Courtney kindly agreed to answer a few questions over email. Read our exchange after the jump, then tell us: What do you think of feminism? Is it antiquated, or still relevant? And do you call yourself a feminist? Why or why not?

D A M S E L // You’ve argued that the “women’s movement” is over. But people have been saying that for decades, and yet there are still so many people fighting for gender equality and women’s rights. Is the movement really over, or has it just evolved, like any other movement?

Courtney E. Martin // I technically argued that the women's movement, as it was conceived in the 1970s, is indeed over. The fight for gender equality lives on in a thousand beautiful, grassroots, often disconnected ways. Essentially I was trying to push the foremothers of the movement to accept that the agenda is not so unilateral as it once was—that these complex times demand a more complex approach to social change.

D // We definitely agree that there's an intergenerational split among women. Older women seem to resent our generation and see us as entitled brats. What's your reaction to the rift and how do you think we can we move beyond it to work together?

CM // I've written a lot on this (Alternet, The American Prospect), but in short, I think that those of us born in the 80s and beyond are sort of feminism's Frankensteins. They've raised us to be empowered, demand equality, not settle for broken systems or unnecessary bureaucracies, make our voices heard, and now they're sometimes horrified when we enact those learnings. Do I think that some younger women could use a lesson or two in humility and/or patience? Absolutely. Do I think the entire generation is inappropriately entitled? Absolutely not. I think that we need to keep straining to have difficult conversations across generational lines, as I do with my intergenerational feminist panel and in so many other spaces. We need to learn to listen with one another. We need to agree to disagree sometimes. We need to express our deep gratitude for one another.

D // I’m not going to lie: It really pisses me off when women who subscribe to feminist beliefs (and reap the benefits of the movement) refuse to call themselves feminists. Frankly, I think they’re ingrates. You, on the other hand, have said you “don’t actually care much” whether people wear the label. And you write for Feministing.com! Help me understand your reasoning.

CM // First off, I champion you for feeling so strongly about the feminist label. I get it. I really do. But for me, the history of feminism is so complicated and the continued class issues so entrenched, that I really empathize with women who want to distance themselves from the label. Feminism was historically seen as a very white movement, and too often, it still resides in the upper echelons of society (colleges, fancy feminist organizations etc.). I hope that young women of diverse ethnic and class backgrounds identify, but if they don't, I don't want them to feel like they can't fight for gender justice alongside me and the other card carrying Feminists.

Now your turn. Tell us your thoughts on feminism. —No. 25

Comments

[Hillary]

I wear the feminist label proudly and would gladly offer a comment or two to any twenty-something girl who turns her nose at it. God help us if the women's movement is over. The feminism of Gloria Steinem isn't the same as the feminism of the suffragists. Along those lines, it makes sense that twenty-something girls may not identify with the second wave anymore. Yes, it was a white, bourgeoisie movement. But feminism, no matter what organized shape it takes, will always be the belief that women should have full equal civil rights as men and the movement toward that goal. Throwing away the word "feminism" and still believing in the fight toward that full social, financial, and legal equality cheapens the incredible strides that feminist waves before us accomplished. It's not dead, it's not dirty, and proclaiming your dedication to women's full equality IS feminism. Twenty-something women shouldn't be turning away from the word, we should be making it our own.

[Jane]

I’d never thought about whether or not I was a “feminist” until No. 25 asked me one day a couple of years ago. I believe I said “no” at the time. But today I’d say “absolutely.” I initially shied away from the label because I’m not an activist. I haven’t done anything, per se, to support the cause, other than put my career first. So I felt like I didn’t deserve the title. But now I think believing in the cause is all that matters. It’s telling the world: Yes, I support equal rights for women.

The only reason that I don’t get really fired up about feminism is that in my 26 years, I haven’t felt oppressed in my day-to-day life. I’ve never been denied anything, as far as I can remember, on the basis of my gender. In school, I played various sports, got elected to student council, and beat out boys for spots in music groups. I’ve been promoted twice at work and my pay, I think, is the same as a guy’s would be in my position. I recognize that this is a very narrow, solipsistic view that certainly doesn’t represent the global situation. But in America, women are running for president, women are CEOS, and in the past 8 seasons of American Idol, an equal number of men and women have won.

But I don’t hear about gays running for president or becoming CEOs or winning American Idol (at least not until tonight). And that’s what DOES get me fired up: gay rights. Between the Dan Choi bs, the fact that gay partners aren’t always allowed to visit one another in the hospital, and the general use of the word “gay” as a synonym for “lame,” to name just a few things—that’s the kind of discrimination that I see and hear and read about on a daily basis.

I’ll attempt to use a metaphor: Roberta Myers, the editor of Elle (the fashion and beauty magazine), was once asked if her publication contributed to the number of women with eating disorders. She was basically like (and I’m paraphrasing): Look, anorexia and bulimia are major problems, and they’re diseases that we need to be concerned about, but obesity is the epidemic in this country. And that’s how I feel about women’s rights and gay rights at the moment.

[Reba]

Do I regularly refer to myself as a feminist? No. Would I list the word on my facebook profile? No. Am I a feminist? Of course.

I think many young women don't immediately count themselves as feminist because we inherently embody much of what the word means. We were born into a world where abortion is legal, birth control is easily available and girls can do anything boys can do. Our mothers have taught us to put our career goals before our romantic ones, to always speak up for ourselves and to demand equality.

While I don't have the urge to go marching in the streets, I also don't reject feminism. (That would be like rejecting the pro-choice label just because abortion is legal). What I do reject is the idea that feminism can't be all-inclusive. The girl power pop culture brand of feminism is just as relevant to me as the fight for equal pay. And the feminism of 20-somethings, whether it be laid back or hardcore, is just as valid as the feminism of the women who pioneered the 70s movement.

All women should be feminists and since women are such an obviously large slice of the population, there has to be room for variety.

[Christina]

If someone asks me if I am a feminist I always say yes,aren't
you?

How did the word get such a negative connotation? It's almost as bad as being called one of the liberal elite!

[On The Issues Magazine]

Who is a feminist? Should she/he be proud of that title? What are feminist values? These are all questions that have no definite or finite answer.

[Sho]

Great comment, Reba.

I share the interviewer's frustration at women, particularly intelligent, strong women shying away from the feminist label. While I appreciate Courtney Martin's reasoning that the history of the feminist movement is complicated and nuanced, I really don't think that captures the sentiment of most women who reject the label. There's still a major fear that it casts you as some sort of man-hating, baby-aborting uber b1tch. Shying away from the label does a great deal to substantiate those stereotypes.

[Jess]

I completely agree with the above comment. I am 23 and I grow weary hearing so many people my age reject the feminist label because they think feminists are nothing but man-haters or whiners. I really have a difficult time understanding why so many people believe there is nothing left to fight for when one in every four college women are victims of rape. As a rape survivor myself, I believe with all my heart there is plenty left to fight for.

[Lane]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, actually. I do call myself a feminist, but for me, that isn't about, like, battling the evil patriarchy trying to bring down the sisterhood, because I don't see that as much of a problem anymore, at least in the US. Personally, I've been thinking of feminism as a movement to help women with the problems that affect them as a gender, like body image issues, childcare problems, sexual abuse - not systematic oppression, but things women need to be supported on. I also tend to think of things like fat acceptance and gay rights under the feminist banner - am I alone in this?

[Liz]

When I hear people (esp women my age- 20) reject or rail against the feminist label, my conclusion is merely that they don't understand what it is. Most people I know do hold feminist beliefs - in fact ARE feminists - they just don't know it, because they don't understand it, because they've had a lot of misinformation thrown at them. So, I don't get angry- I just do my best to educate. I actually recently did a presentation for my classmates on what feminism is and why I'm a feminist, and the response was overwhelmingly positive (from the guys too!), which to me reinforces the idea that these anti-feminist sentiments are, by and large, a product of lack of information, or bad information.

Also I want to second the sentiment that I include things like gay rights, and trans rights, and fat acceptance and so forth under the feminist banner. :)

[mercuria]

I'm a 33 year old riotgrrl of color who is a loud and proud feminist. (And y'all, even 30-somethings barely remember the 70s!) My college education spanned the early 90s culture wars, where we learned about the mistakes of first wave white feminism. My take was, "That sucked. No need to do it that way again," and I moved my young feminist self on.

That said, it's refreshing to observe 20-somethings' feminism and its earnest go at total inclusiveness along so many lines: sexual orientation, race, class, nationality--you name it. Truly, I did not grow up in this kind of world--back then, we had subcultures for that! I hope to high heaven that Ronald Reagan's now turning in his grave.

I've never been much of a joiner, so I can understand if people shy from identifying with feminists on that ground. But particularly after a date rape, advocating the equality/agency of my own skin was a no-brainer. When society fully expresses that women are regarded primarily for their full-fledged personhood rather than only what they provide to men (sex, validation, mommying), I may then not need to call myself feminist. But as far as I see in our media-saturated world, we are still too often sexpots, enemy-lesbians and/or mommies for the rich boys who already have all the toys.

[Emily]

'Personally, I've been thinking of feminism as a movement to help women with the problems that affect them as a gender, like body image issues, childcare problems, sexual abuse - not systematic oppression, but things women need to be supported on.'

Egad! Those are a part of systematic oppression. Women as objects, as body parts, as homemakers...etc. There is constant bombardment. Simply because there isn't one great entity conspiring to get women doesn't mean oppression isn't happening. I think feminism has a bad rap partly because so many women don't see the connection between the 'issues' women have and the way our culture shapes various female lives.

[Elizabeth]

I have to say I'm pleased to read many of the comments on this post. But, Jane, you are 26 and haven't felt oppression? I find that very hard to believe. If it is indeed your impression and experience then it is only because of your feminist foremothers who agitated for feminist ideas that you may indeed be less oppressed than some. Of course GLBT rights are important--essential--but they are also one aspect of feminist thinking and feminist ideology. BTW, asking the editor of a women's magazine anything about body image is kind of a joke. Obesity is an issue, but not on the level they would like us to believe.

[Lil]

I am a 23 year-old and a feminist and most of my friends (male and female) call themselves feminists too. Like Reba I always try and get people to see that unless they think that women and men are not equal then they are a feminist.
What does bother me though is when feminism looks to reinforce binary gender, which I think is largely a problem in '70s style feminism. We'll never get genuine equality unless we include everyone along the whole gender spectrum. A lot of what still causes women to earn less or get saddled with all the childcare and housework is that while, in theory, women have the same opportunities as men, men don't have the same rights as women on things that were traditionally part of the 'female sphere'. This is particularly obvious when it comes to childcare. If men got as much paternity leave as women get maternity leave then a whole load of work based problems would vanish. In some countries you get a period of time to share between you that can be split any way you like. This would make life easier for same sex parents too. So to me the future of feminism is inextricably linked to wider issues of equality- some cannot be more equal than others.
Having said that, there are still masses of issues specifically facing women all around the world on a scale of unbelievable abuse and inequality. Plenty for us entitled brats to be working on...

[Jenny]

Thanks for this topic. I am a feminist and am proud to be so. My husband is a feminist but doesn't know it, while so are my female friends who laugh at me for proclaiming myself a feminist. It's all about education but it seems to me that I am far from alone - that every feminist probably has this battle/need to educate among the majority (?) of her associates.

Anyway, reading everyone's thoughts got me thinking - feminism needs a rebranding, a big image overhaul (to the wider world, that is).

It would be really cool if there could be an advertising campaign or such where beautiful, famous, loved women (actors/Oprah etc) could be shown with their friends and family saying "I am a feminist" or "The F word is a good thing" or whatever.

I'm wondering who would fund this, though...

Anyway, I would be interested in everyone's thoughts.

[Jessica]

I am not a feminist. I believe wholly in the right to a woman's equality, as I do the right to any other person's equality. For one, there was so much race and class exclusion among early feminism, that I can't in good conscience consider myself to be completely a "feminist." Secondly, I refuse to use labels for anything. Bitch is a label. Your gender is a label. Your class is a label. It seems so ridiculous to me that in order to fight one group of labels, you must ardently adhere to another. Isn't this a point behind many issue we deal with, like sexual objectification and the right to be genderqueer. There is no law stating we have to choose a name and keep it forever. I think a lot of the time we spend defining, and defending a name our generation didn't even give themselves could be spent, I don't know, worrying about something else.